HVGN criticizes Zoda's Revenge

[CKY2K]

The same guy who praised StarTropics as one of the best games now explains why he doesn't like Zoda's Revenge.

If you like ZR, I have to warn you that this review can be pretty harsh but has good points:

www.retrowaretv.com/home/HappyVideoGameNerd/HVGNEpisode15/tabid/386/Default.aspx

[shinigamihedgehog]

I'm not even going to bother right now. The guy has a clear bias, and though there certainly are downsides to Zoda's Revenge, it's not a reason to bash it in EVERY SINGLE REVIEW HE MAKES.

He's supposed to be the HAPPY video game nerd, if he's going to b***h about this game, I'd rather have the REAL AVGN have it reviewed, instead of this ripoff jerk.. And I'll be sure to tell him this later when I watch this.

Thanks for the link.

EDIT:

Ok, so it wasn't that bad after all... I expected to be one long rant about how he hates everything about the game. Clearly he was "inspired" by the AVGN's re-take on Castlevania 2, so he decided to do the same.

I can agree with some points, but I couldn't help but laugh when he brought up Cleopatra and the Pizza, or the Chicken Nugget. XD Sorry but that's just plain funny.

And totally disagree on the title excuse. It's like Zelda 2 was named Ganon's Revenge, it'd make a lot of sense (at least if Ganon was in it).

[parrothead1983]

Jan 25, 2010 10:56:41 GMT -5 shinigamihedgehog said:

I'm not even going to bother right now. The guy has a clear bias, and though there certainly are downsides to Zoda's Revenge, it's not a reason to bash it in EVERY SINGLE REVIEW HE MAKES.

He's supposed to be the HAPPY video game nerd, if he's going to b***h about this game, I'd rather have the REAL AVGN have it reviewed, instead of this ripoff jerk.. And I'll be sure to tell him this later when I watch this.

Thanks for the link.

EDIT:

Ok, so it wasn't that bad after all... I expected to be one long rant about how he hates everything about the game. Clearly he was "inspired" by the AVGN's re-take on Castlevania 2, so he decided to do the same.

I can agree with some points, but I couldn't help but laugh when he brought up Cleopatra and the Pizza, or the Chicken Nugget. XD Sorry but that's just plain funny.

And totally disagree on the title excuse. It's like Zelda 2 was named Ganon's Revenge, it'd make a lot of sense (at least if Ganon was in it).

His review was actually inspired by the AVGN's review for Super Mario Bros. 3.. Since the AVGN is all about reviewing games that he hates, the HVGN is trying to be the opposite. AVGN likes Super Mario Bros. 3 and HVGN dislikes Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II.

Like what the 1987 Raphael in the Turtles Forever movie said to the audience, "Some people just can't handle change." Perhaps the Island Yo-Yo (or Island Star) was removed because of "yo-yo" being a trademark name in Canada, or Mike thought it was obsolete and kept it as a souvenir for himself at home. A lot of sequels, ports and remakes fail like this, making fans say "They Changed It Now It Sucks!", and that's probably one reason why Capcom decided to make the original Mega Man series go back to its roots starting with Mega Man 9. If there was a Mega Man 11, will it have 16-bit graphics based on either Mega Man: The Wily Wars or the Mega Man 7 and Mega Man arcades?

Of course there are several flaws in Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II, because back in between 1993 and 1994, Genyo Takeda still wasn't gaining all the right experience in software development and his Nintendo IRD team were having a rough time working on this and the SNES Super Punch-Out!! at the same time. Before the SNES Super Punch-Out!! was released, several previews and screenshots like these below showed a different-looking boxer, as well as different voices:



Here are some screenshots scanned from Nintendo Power issues 62 (July 1994) and 63 (August 1994). Thanks to Nester from the Nintendo Database (NinDB) forums for scanning them. I remember seeing these when the game was announced shortly before it was released.

Volume 62 (whole)

Volume 62 (screenshot)

Volume 63 (whole)

Volume 63 (screenshots)

Shortly before 2009 ended, someone on YouTube finally uploaded the commercial for the top-loading NES + MegaMan 6 + Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II, in higher quality:



When I first played Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II, I felt the same way I first played MOTHER 3/GBA EarthBound, because of how long the series hasn't gotten a new game in their series. The themes of Mike, Mica, Zoda and a few others were some of the best points about why the StarTropics sequel was good, because they never had them in the first StarTropics.

One thing Derek Alexander forgot about is Sherlock Holmes and Merlin. If it's all about real-life history, why add some fictional characters? I guess it's more about exploring a library full of books about both, real and fictional stories.

I have to agree with how you move around in the underworld levels. I fell several times in the pits and waters, but that's not as annoying as accidentally stopping while you are trying to turn toward the next path in the first StarTropics.

What else I really disagree with are the title, the jokes (e.g. Caesar's Hut Pizza, Chicken Nugget instead of Gold Nugget, etc.) and the other background music.

No matter how well you explain why Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II isn't trash, it would be like stepping up to his front door and saying it, while he slams it closed in front of you while not listening at all.

[shinigamihedgehog]

Of course the AVGN's Super Mario Bros.3 episode was the obvious comparison at first, but the HVGN complains a LOT about Zoda's Revenge. The AVGN quotes good games, but he doesn't always reference Super Mario Bros. 3, as opposed to the HVGN who always references Zoda's Revenge for the peak of all bad games. So we can't say they're the exact opposite.

No seriously, I stopped watching the HVGN when I noticed he bashes Zoda's Revenge in EVERY SINGLE episode he does.

But yeah, maybe the idea to review a "bad game" came from AVGN's idea to review a good game, though sheesh... Zoda's Revenge shoulnd't even be considered among bad games, it's just stupid. What James Rolfe reviews, those are TERRIBLE games, and I bet the HVGN would take ZR over any of the ones James reviews.


I do know what Zoda's Revenge lacks the most, though, and that's a serious plot. StarTropics was happy-go-lucky most of the times, but everytime you talked to an island chief, and the music changed to a tense tone, you knew something was up.

ZR lacks this, it's goofy from the moment you start your quest almost up to the end, and I think that's one of the reasons why some people failed to like ZR as far as plot goes.. Because come on, time-traveling is an amazing plot to work with, contrary to common belief. Just ask Chrono Trigger, Sonic CD, or Ocarina of Time.


I will always say this, though. The moment they chose to release Zoda's Revenge for the NES was the day they dug up StarTropics' grave. Just think what would've happened if Devil May Cry 4 was released for the PS2 instead.. definitely would've received major backlash. Capcom would've wanted to forget all about the franchise.

[parrothead1983]

I understand what you mean, shinigamihedgehog. It's terrible to look at the HVGN hating Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II. I wouldn't even want the AVGN to review it, because he's like forcing his fans and viewers to join the bandwagon. Usually when I jump in the bandwagon with most popular things, my parents become sick and tired of it, while it makes me feel guilty.

Some games the AVGN reviewed aren't really bad to several people, it's either because there are some bad points about them or it's just that he's not good at them. Transformers: Convoy no Nazo is quite popular (or perhaps infamous) in Japan. So popular, it was featured on Game Center CX (the show the Nintendo DS game Retro Game Challenge is based on), and was ported to the Virtual Console. It wasn't brought outside of Japan, mainly because of the plot. If it was the gameplay, they would of changed it some. Back when it was released, other games released in 1986 like SMB2: The Lost Levels, Atlantis no Nazo and several others were quite challenging and had the "one-hit KO" rule.

It's usually difficult to revive a popular franchise. Some people say "They Changed It Now It Sucks", some people say "It's The Same Now It Sucks". Combine them and you'll get an "Unpleasable Fanbase."

[Coralcola]

Jan 28, 2010 21:47:05 GMT -5 parrothead1983 said:

Some games the AVGN reviewed aren't really bad to several people, it's either because there are some bad points about them or it's just that he's not good at them.

THIS!

And such is why I don't hold AVGN in any greater regard than as a far as I could throw him *and frankly, with him, that's definitely not far*.

I'm not good at sports games, like NES Play Action Football, Track and Field, etc, but to call them bad would be biased on my part, because just because I don't enjoy or just don't "get it" with them, doesn't mean they're bad and doesn't mean others don't enjoy them and actually have the brain capacity to figure out how to get through the games. It would also help if you were raised on playing such games, as it is obvious AVGN wasn't (and really, is some guy who started playing/reviewing these things, humorous in tone or not, much later in life THAN SO MANY others being called an expert in the field by so many justified?), so that you'd know what things to naturally look out for, and what not to...

As for HVGN, if he doesn't like ST2, I can't imagine he'd like MM6 or a bunch of other games, so before he goes nuclear on one game (and yes, ST2 has its faults, especially compared to ST1), lemme point him in the direction of some other games (some which AVGN might almost have the right to belittle and berate until he explodes) like E.T., Knight Rider, Spelunker (even though I love it), and NES Double Dare (again, even though I like it). He'll go from HVGN to DVGN *Disenamored VGN*...

/Rant completed, programs on autoshutdown. HI EVERYONE!

[parrothead1983]

I believe E.T. was trying to save the video game business, but when it was too late, due to an extremely large number of competing consoles, home computers and poorly developed games messing up the video gaming business, while many gamers look at the New Mexico newspaper photo of Atari 2600 cartridges and misunderstood them as E.T. cartridges (well, there could be a lot more games buried along with some E.T. ones) and start an argument saying that E.T. is the worst video game in existence, because it almost made video gaming pointless and uninteresting.

Japan passed their knowledge of video game development to Nintendo to bring it to North America and elsewhere to explain what the point of video gaming is. If you hear many gamers still bashing E.T. for the Atari 2600, ignore them. They just want something to hate.

Little Miss Gamer's "The Bad Game" video, CyricZ's featured review at GameFAQs and the facts that American video game companies overproducing while American's losing their interest in video gaming due to not understanding what makes a great game are probably the best supporters of the Atari 2600 version of E.T..

Howard Scott Warshaw was forced by Atari and Warner Bros. to develop E.T. in less than six weeks before Christmas. A similar thing happened when Gunpei Yokoi was forced by Nintendo to start releasing his prototype (or unfinished) 3D Boy as Virtual Boy as soon as possible, causing a failure that made him move from Nintendo to Bandai to create the WonderSwan before passing away. I still have mine when it was bought by my parents during its release without me requesting it. I still have it, but I only have Mario's Tennis and Red Alarm.

I first played E.T. for the Atari 2600 in elementary school and I kept wondering why I ever get stuck in the wells (referred to by gamers that hate the game "pits") and couldn't know where to start. Little Miss Gamer was correct about the manual. It would of helped you understand how to play it. Most gamers, including the Irate Gamer, were like "So why am I even fighting here? Is there a specific reason for this? I guess there could be an explanation in the instruction manual, but to hell with that! Whoever reads those things anyway? I can't waste my time reading about a game I just gotta play it!" Even numerous video rental stores got rid of manuals and everything else in it, including Dr. Steve Jones' letter. The SNES F-ZERO manual also featured a comic that proves that Captain Falcon fought, used his pistol and flew his Falcon Flyer before he appeared in the SSB series.

Currently, he is now an English Internet meme along with Chuck Norris, Shoop Da Whoop, the "Awesome Face" (annoying IMO), the "Peanut Butter Jelly Time" Dancing Banana, Zeeky H. Bomb, Phillips CD-i King of Hyrule and several others.

[shinigamihedgehog]

Another thing I hate about the HVGN is how his situation "set-ups" are too obvious.

Like when he mentioned the flinching time in ZR, yeah, it was funny because the enemies weren't hitting HIM. It was obviously HIM trying to get hit by the enemy, so it was a clear set up. I understand sometimes you have to show the problem, but at least make a decent attempt to fake it!

"So yeah, there is NO escaping a monster once he touches you" *sticks to the monster instead of pushing away*

I can't say I have a game I hate that much... Maybe TMNT Smash Up because of the untapped potential, but I haven't played it and I'm sure I could still have a good time with it if I played it once.


Kudos to the AVGN for making StarTropics the good game reference in his Metal Gear review, though.

[Coralcola]

Jan 29, 2010 15:28:32 GMT -5 parrothead1983 said:

Japan passed their knowledge of video game development to Nintendo to bring it to North America and elsewhere to explain what the point of video gaming is. If you hear many gamers still bashing E.T. for the Atari 2600, ignore them. They just want something to hate.

See Parrothead, you're talking mostly about people whose opinions are based on never played the game, only going off what others have said, and just being overassuming and what have you (like most AVGN viewers), but with myself being a hardcore classic gamer, being a fan of MANY Atari games (and having played them since the 80's) AND HAVING PLAYED E.T. ITSELF, my opinion is not based on others (and never is) and I frankly do not think the horribleness that is spoke of with it is that overdone.

Is it the tragedy in Haiti? Hell no, a bad video game is not wretched compared to 99.9% of that which is bad in the world, but via the bases of comparison in the VG genre, my opinion sticks, and I still feel E.T. was a big smudge mark in the industry, especially at the time of its release. Sure, there are plenty of reasons for it, many which could not be helped, but it doesn't mean the final product is any better because of such. An excuse is just that, an excuse...

Jan 29, 2010 16:13:43 GMT -5 shinigamihedgehog said:

Like when he mentioned the flinching time in ZR, yeah, it was funny because the enemies weren't hitting HIM. It was obviously HIM trying to get hit by the enemy, so it was a clear set up. I understand sometimes you have to show the problem, but at least make a decent attempt to fake it!

"So yeah, there is NO escaping a monster once he touches you" *sticks to the monster instead of pushing away*

See, that's another example, in my book, of how differing opinions may vary and how those who grew up with these games and have many more years of experience than these people tend to look very differently than those who make these reviews.

I always felt the "enemy stick" in ST2 was more realistic than other Nintendo games made back then. Let's say you truly are Mike, in real life, walking through a cave, and Zoda's minions are actually trying to kill you. They sure as hell (if they're smart) not going to hit you just once then turn around and walk away to let you recover. There's a reason there's a saying "Hit 'em while they're down." You gotta use some real-world thinking to get out of those situations...

Also, invisibility doesn't happen, no matter what the case, in real life either, so in my mind, that was Nintendo advancing the game's realistic perspective, which is almost never a bad thing in my mind...

[shinigamihedgehog]

Speaking of E.T. I watched a friend play it one day, and ugh... the game was terrible.. But not as in "worst game ever made" terrible, just... bad. Like ANY movie-based game, you know?

Movie-games haven't improved one bit. Perhaps there are some exceptions such as the first Batman game on the NES, or some past Disney games like Little Mermaid (NES) Aladdin (Snes and Genesis), Lion King, Toy Story, etc, etc, etc. Then again, the priorly mentioned had pubslishers of their own (disney interactive) so they knew what they were doing.

Oh speaking of which... the HVGN also seems to hate Genesis' Aladdin... Ok this made me dislike him even more, as I know a LOT of people love the genesis version over the Snes one (I love both the same) for its detailed cel-animated graphics, and because he could use a weapon. Of course whiny little Happy nerd says it was pointless.

[CKY2K]

I like Zoda's Revenge, but I think some of his points were alright.
It's just his opinion. He tried to tell everyone it's just his opinion and that you should try the game yourself and judge it yourself, and not just hate it because he does.
I think he does exaggerate about the problems of the game play a bit though. It's not that hard of a game you just need to get used to it.

[parrothead1983]

I've updated my previous post. E.T. preceded The Legend of Zelda in overhead adventure games, and so did Adventure for the same platform.

Jan 29, 2010 19:36:25 GMT -5 shinigamihedgehog said:

Speaking of E.T. I watched a friend play it one day, and ugh... the game was terrible.. But not as in "worst game ever made" terrible, just... bad. Like ANY movie-based game, you know?

Movie-games haven't improved one bit. Perhaps there are some exceptions such as the first Batman game on the NES, or some past Disney games like Little Mermaid (NES) Aladdin (Snes and Genesis), Lion King, Toy Story, etc, etc, etc. Then again, the priorly mentioned had pubslishers of their own (disney interactive) so they knew what they were doing.

Oh speaking of which... the HVGN also seems to hate Genesis' Aladdin... Ok this made me dislike him even more, as I know a LOT of people love the genesis version over the Snes one (I love both the same) for its detailed cel-animated graphics, and because he could use a weapon. Of course whiny little Happy nerd says it was pointless.

I used to like Disney, but not anymore; however, I recently watched "The Love Bug" on TCM, because I remember being obsessed with the Volkswagon Beetle when I was very young, because most other cars looked mean and angry. I used to have the Genesis version, while I rented the SNES version. The Genesis version, during the parts between stages where people talk with a picture of someone next to it, those really scared me when I was younger, especially the Abu and disguised version of Jafar ones. This version is pretty difficult, especially in the escaping part and final boss, which I never could beat them. The SNES version was easy enough for me to beat it, while it looks superior, because it has better scenes, password system and ending. The SNES version of Aladdin was seen in this Chrono Trigger Flash animation.

If a movie-based video game was developed by a Japanese company, it would most likely be better than it would if it was developed by a company in North America or elsewhere, because Japan has more experience in game design than most other regions do. Why? During the 1983 North American Video Game Crash, Japan was still having fun in gaming business, and has been like that ever since.