brucependragon
Ace Pitcher
I like you, but my avatar doesn't.
Posts: 103
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Post by brucependragon on Mar 17, 2009 11:40:09 GMT -5
You know, the two games left a lot of guesswork for the fans to do in an effort to piece the story together. Some questions were just never answered. Was Mica's telepathic ability unique, or do all Argonians have that power? Was Mike's Psychic Shockwave related to it if they did? Is it possible Zoda was an Argonian? (Erico's not the only one who seem to think so) And just what did Zoda want the Argonian stasis cubes for in the first place? Where did the Oxford Wonder World come from? There are a number of fans who have drawn their own conclusions about these questions, and some of their conclusions have become as "fanon" as a Mike & Mica romance. I thought it might be cool to have a "theories" thread to discuss some of these ideas.... and this is that thread. And our first topic for discussion, which I guess I'll pick since I started the thread, is what (besides Erico's super-epic fanfic and Shinigami's awesome comic) makes so many of us think Zoda was an Argonian?
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Post by shinigamihedgehog on Mar 17, 2009 12:25:44 GMT -5
It's funny that you bring this up for the first time into the open. Let's see... *gathers evidence, and puts glasses on* -The symbol formed when gathering the Tetrads (Hirocon's emblem) has a striking rescemblence to Zoda's footprint. -The escape pod in which the 7 children were thrown to earth has (or had) a spherical shape. Just like the one Mike used to escape from ZODA'S ship at the end of the game. -Zoda and Mica share telepathy powers. I still have not found a connection between Psychic Shockwave, Merlin, and the Argonians. My theory is that Merlin learned the Psychic Shockwave (and his other spells) from Hirocon, since Merlin referred to Hirocon as his old friend. -Zoda and hirocon wear rescembling armor pieces. (Take away the spikes, and take away Zoda's helmet, and you've got nearly identical garbs). Maybe Zoda was Argonian royalty. Hirocon's brother, anyone? *takes off glasses* I rest my case. Oh, my comics are not meant to be considered as canon or "fanon" XD more like "funon" (yay for ST-esque pun!) And thank you for, Bruce. I need to continue your fan-fic in order to see if you think Zoda was argonian as well or not.
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brucependragon
Ace Pitcher
I like you, but my avatar doesn't.
Posts: 103
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Post by brucependragon on Mar 17, 2009 15:19:42 GMT -5
"-Zoda and hirocon wear rescembling armor pieces. (Take away the spikes, and take away Zoda's helmet, and you've got nearly identical garbs). Maybe Zoda was Argonian royalty. Hirocon's brother, anyone?"
Actually, I noticed that too. I planned on writing a fanfic once based on that, involving zoda being the elder brother, snubbed by their father who left the title of Prime Minister to Hirocon. After all, remember the emphasis zoda placed on the word "Invader," putting a space in his introduction? "I am the Prime... Invader, Zoda." Hmm... the evidence would indicate a strong possibility of Zoda's Argonian roots. And here's one I didn't mention in the last post. Did ZR mean to imply that Zoda Y was the source of the dracula legends? If so, what other historical villains might have been Zoda-influenced? Attila the Hun? Caesar Nero? My fifth grade English teacher? But i digress. What about the Oxford Wonder World? How did Argonian glyphs become the means by which a time-travelling book on Earth was activated, and why would those glyphs have been carved on the side of the escape pod?
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maetch
Coralcolian Villager
Posts: 46
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Post by maetch on Apr 13, 2009 12:03:13 GMT -5
Personally, I don't really go for the "Argonian Zoda" theory. The footprints seem to be little more than a coincidence to me.
Here's a good question, though: When Zoda-X is destroyed in ZR, he briefly flickers into the monster form that the original used, but dies before he can fully transform. However, Zoda-Y and Zoda-Z use completely different monster forms. Could it be possible that the "original" Zoda was another clone as well? And if so, then what exactly is the REAL Zoda?
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brucependragon
Ace Pitcher
I like you, but my avatar doesn't.
Posts: 103
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Post by brucependragon on Apr 13, 2009 18:22:22 GMT -5
There are actually a few fanfics out there that assert that the "original" was nothing more than Zoda W (I can't give enough acclaim to Erico's story or enough plugs for my own =P). As to what the real Zoda might be... well, lack of an answer to that question is one of the reasons why so many of us think Zoda was an Argonian. All-in-all, it seems a careful examination reveals more questions than answers in the series canon. *Ahem* AS IN, SEQUEL FODDER, EH, NINTENDO?! Apropos of nothing though, welcome to the island.
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maetch
Coralcolian Villager
Posts: 46
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Post by maetch on Apr 14, 2009 12:24:05 GMT -5
There are actually a few fanfics out there that assert that the "original" was nothing more than Zoda W (I can't give enough acclaim to Erico's story or enough plugs for my own =P). As to what the real Zoda might be... well, lack of an answer to that question is one of the reasons why so many of us think Zoda was an Argonian. True, but I think Zoda seems more of a separate species from the Argonians. I've read Erico's story, and I don't really like it. I think all that "prophesized savior" stuff he used for Mike kinda ruined it for me. Mike's charm was that he wasn't a hero in any way, shape, or form. He was just a kid from Seattle who wanted to go fishing and got in way over his head.
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Post by sonic332 on Jan 30, 2010 16:49:23 GMT -5
While I DO share the above opinion on Mike being propecied, you can't deny that they DID pull this to an extent in Zoda's Revenge ALREADY, what with Hirocon apparently having forseen Mike being the one to save him and telling Merlin to be on the lookout for him.
Something I want to know- is that backwards-speech Mica was using in ZR's ending supposed to be the Argonian language? Or just Mica trying to send you a message without the others knowing what it said?
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Post by shinigamihedgehog on Jan 31, 2010 9:45:55 GMT -5
I think it was Mica trying to be funny. Or that's the hint I got. Though in real life, if someone like Mica told me her last lines of goodbye in foreign language, i'd be all over her. ^///^ What has concerned me though, is the fact that when you rescue her from the last dungeon, she tells you that "she has so many things to tell you, but you should first go speak to the chief". Then after you speak to the chief.. well you gather the tetrads, Hirocon appears, takes the remains of his people, and off they go. Mica never told you those "many things" she talked about earlier... SEQUEL MATERIAL! There must be something else going on! Perhaps... outside Earth? See, this is why I dislike the ending to this game (in a good way) it just opened another plothole. :S (And yeah, Mike was totally forseen, it's mentioned by Hirocon who knew about him in the first place)
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Post by sonic332 on Jan 31, 2010 15:03:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I noticed that too. I suppose they expected us to forget it, what with the revelation of Hirocon being alive and all just suddenly hitting you, but I wanted to find out what she had to say. That's probably THE biggest plot hole in the series.
As for the Oxford Wonder World, I'd have to say it's somehow tied in with Merlin. After all, isn't Merlin the guy who helped Hirocon hide himself in time? And Dr. Jones DID say "a wise old man" (or something to that effect) gave it to him...
This is a bit of an aside, but I preferred it when it was the magic of the Southern Cross helping Mike- the whole Merlin thing is a bit cliched.
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Post by shinigamihedgehog on Feb 1, 2010 18:01:58 GMT -5
Here's a good question, though: When Zoda-X is destroyed in ZR, he briefly flickers into the monster form that the original used, but dies before he can fully transform. However, Zoda-Y and Zoda-Z use completely different monster forms. Could it be possible that the "original" Zoda was another clone as well? And if so, then what exactly is the REAL Zoda? Maybe the other Zoda clones had more time to develop a form of their own, while Zoda-X was the newest "spawn", he might not have had enough time to develop himself when Mike defeated him. I have a theory that Zoda is actually one of those spawns posessing somone, and gaining complete, permanent control over the hosts's mind and body. They use the host's body as a shell to evolve their DNA (like a cocoon) into a monster of some sort. They're all pretty much alien spawns, and those space troopers of his I believe are empty mechanical bodies controlled by these spawns, kinda like their war machines (think Utroms from TMNT, or Krang for that matter). But the Space-Troopers being simple robots is also a valid theory.
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maetch
Coralcolian Villager
Posts: 46
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Post by maetch on Feb 9, 2010 13:43:47 GMT -5
(And yeah, Mike was totally forseen, it's mentioned by Hirocon who knew about him in the first place) True, but it's not like he's a reborn Argonian hero. Mike was just the average kid who was brave enough to save them. That's why I DON'T like Erico's portrayal of Mike Maybe the other Zoda clones had more time to develop a form of their own, while Zoda-X was the newest "spawn", he might not have had enough time to develop himself when Mike defeated him. I always thought that the Zoda in the first game WAS a Zoda-X, the X signifying its type. My theory is that NONE of the Zodas encountered was the real one, and that the real entity controlling them has yet to be seen. I have a theory that Zoda is actually one of those spawns posessing somone, and gaining complete, permanent control over the hosts's mind and body. They use the host's body as a shell to evolve their DNA (like a cocoon) into a monster of some sort. They're all pretty much alien spawns, and those space troopers of his I believe are empty mechanical bodies controlled by these spawns, kinda like their war machines (think Utroms from TMNT, or Krang for that matter). But the Space-Troopers being simple robots is also a valid theory. It would actually make perfect sense. All those spawn would have to be used for something other than jsut getting blasted. So, by extension of your theory, a Zoda creates a spawn, which gets to control a basic armor-suit. If it proves itself capable enough, it gets to "possess" a sentient being and use its DNA to hyper-evolve into a stronger body. The enhanced spawn then gets fitted with Zoda armor and goes off to another planet to continue the cycle. These Zoda are the "Prime Invaders", the ones who command all lesser spawn to invade and conquer planets. Now, if the Zoda is desperate, it can hyper-evolve further into a bestial form, though it sacrifices its former body. There are three known monster forms for a Zoda to evolve into: X-type, Y-type, and Z-type. The first Zoda that Mike defeated in ST1 was actually an X-type, whereas the one in ST2 was destroyed too quickly for it to hyper-evolve in time. I believe there may also be a Supreme Invader, the Alpha and Omega of all Zodakind. THIS is the original Zoda, the one that rules all. If there's ever an ST3, finding this Supreme Invader and destroying it may end up being the ultimate plot.
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Post by sonic332 on Feb 10, 2010 20:57:38 GMT -5
That would be very, VERY awesome.
Another interesting thing I noticed is that, in the first ST, Zoda and co. had revived/created/whatever and were controlling the island monsters. In other words, Zoda was controlling not only his own alien troopers, but things like Jellies and Loopers, and things directly tied into the history of the islands, like the zombified remains of the pirates Captain Bell fought, things like that.
I don't think it was directly said in the sequel, but I feel it's a safe assumption that those creatures causing havok all across history were all revived and controlled like their island counterparts.
Now, this is a REALLY interesting bit of the series' plot that just sort of seems to get glossed over. HOW, exactly, do the aliens revive all these monsters? How do they CONTROL them?
And, more importantly, is this the normal practice whenever they invade a planet? Find out whatever freaky monsters they'd had running around, bring 'em back, and use 'em to supplement their ground troops?
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Post by shinigamihedgehog on Feb 11, 2010 0:11:25 GMT -5
That would be very, VERY awesome. Now, this is a REALLY interesting bit of the series' plot that just sort of seems to get glossed over. HOW, exactly, do the aliens revive all these monsters? How do they CONTROL them? I would've loved for this to be true unfortunatley *puts on monocle* evidence suggests otherwise. You see Chief Coralcola mentioned that "Several years ago" the monsters had started rampagins the dungeons. Zoda's prescense on Earth was at MOST a whole year (when Bananette witnessed shooting stars and lightning flashes in the sky, before falling into a coma... this I believe was something that came from Argonia, either the escape pod, or Zoda's ship). Then again... once Mike defeated Zoda, the monsters had supposedly disappeared... The theory is amazing, so I'll believe Chief Coralcola was mistaken. It was barely a year ago when the monsters became violent.
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Post by sonic332 on Feb 11, 2010 9:40:30 GMT -5
And also note how the cave on C-Island suddenly becomes POPULATED again when Zoda's been running around in ZR... *rubs chin thoughtfully* In any case, I coulda SWORN someone in the first game comes right out and says 'The aliens are controlling the monsters' or something, and I last beat 'em a few weeks ago... Ah, well- thank God for Review Mode, I guess. That and ANY excuse to play through them again!
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Post by Matt on Apr 13, 2011 20:08:05 GMT -5
I realize this is over a year old now, but having been going over the plot points of the two games recently, its as good a time as any to put my two cents in. I think it's safe to assume Dr. J got the Oxford Wonder World from Merlin. The manual even states that he got it "some time ago from a wise old man." Good enough for me. Though the idea of Zoda being Argonian is intriguing, I don't think this is the case. First, in ZR, his footprints are the odd shape that is similar to Hirocon's emblem. Mind you though, these footprints would have been created in his humanoid form. He hadn't transformed. Erico's fanfic describes Zoda as genocidal. Though I see where he was coming from, I see him as actually somewhat Machiavellian. Assuming he knew the kids were in the cubes, he would be attempting to finish off the royal family. Same with the tetrads. And if he didn't, then he merely desired the power he thought he would gain. Either way makes enough sense that Zoda isn't necessarily a cardboard cutout evil villain, but rather just power hungry. In any case I feel that interpretation gives him the most depth. As to the clone debate, I would say the ST Zoda is in fact the original, and I can back that up with three reasons. 1) In ZR there is never any mention of Z,Y, or Z having a spaceship to my knowledge. If there were, there would have been more aliens than just him to worry about. 2) Approaching Zoda's chamber in ST, there are many spawn making there way down the hall away from him. I think it's reasonable to assume this didn't start right when Mike walked in. Thus if this is how he reproduces, there would be plenty of spawn making their way out of the ship. 3) X dies before he can transform. Obviously an imperfect clone. Y transforms into an Owl, possibly he used an owl as some sort of host to take form. Z is certainly more humanoid after transformation, perhaps a human host, which is why he is strongest? TBH I don't really know wtf he's supposed to be, im just kinda guessing. I'm kinda reaching for straws at certain points, but this is how I interpret it to make the most sense. As to the footprints and the symbol being similar and Hirocon and Zoda's garb looking somewhat similar, I would chalk that up to having the same design team. I wouldn't say coincidence, more like certain shapes may have appealed to them at the time. Ok, done trying to explain away a series that was left very open ended
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